Moral Contradictions

Thursday, April 07, 2005

The 54th and a chopping block

Just quotes here... take it how you want.

Candidate Shaun Kenney: "While supporters claim the bill [SB 1338] is a free enterprise initiative that will make Virginia a more competitive business environment, newspapers like the Richmond Times Dispatch saw through the spin, appropriately labeling their story, Health Coverage for Gay Couples Set....our delegate voted wrong on the bill." ShaunKenney.com

Supporters of Kenney: "I also share Shaun's belief in traditional family values, which he vows to defend against activist judges and revisionist lawmakers." - Letter to the Editor, Free-Lance Star

Another supporter: "I will not support anyone who refuses to be honest about his record....There is one Shaun that I will trust--Spotsylvania Republican Committee Chairman Shaun Kenney." Letter to the Editor, Free-Lance Star

Yet another supporter: "I hope this year the voters will look more at the candidates' records and not at the campaign rhetoric." Letter to the Editor, Free-Lance Star

Poster Kenney, 9/12/03: "This could be placing my proverbial head on the chopping block, but here goes. . .

It seems as if there is a lack of distinction between a moral act and an ethical condonence of an act. For instance with homosexuality, there is a majority in the United States that believes that morality is unacceptable behaviour, but there is a roughly equal number of people who have no problem with homosexuality as the freely exercised rights of that individual.

As a Catholic, I do not believe homosexual acts to be moral. But to take the extreme position of stating that they have no right to participate in everyday activities, that their opinions should be ridiculed or sidesteped for convenience, or that they are somehow less-than-valued members of society is an incorrect belief.

In short, I am not writing to defend a morality of homosexual conduct. What I am saying is that homosexuals are indeed a part of today's American framework, and rather than slinging Bible verses at them we should be engaging in a more respectful tone that doesn't revert to namecalling or ignorance - and that goes for both sides.

An ethical response in American eyes would be to share one's opinion on the matter and then leave things be. (original emphasis) Excessive moralizing can be just as dangerous as unchecked notions of morality."

FredTalk Posting (his post is deleted, but disillusionedx2's post quotes him roughly half-way down)


Is he really the hard-core family protecting 2nd Amendment lover that he's now telling Spotsylvania he'll be in office? Is he "leaving things be" by running for office? Or is he opportunistic? That's all questions that constituents of the 54th deserve to truthfully know.

The rat stink gets, well, smellier...

As I have more time to find quotes, and not so-called spin, I'll post them here.

Edit: Read the other posts on this subject...

Remember the 54th! Or something...
Update on Shaun Kenney and the 54th
Update on the 54th primary
Beating the old (54th) horse
Kenney and his promises - 5/5/05

11 Comments:

  • You didn't post the title of the thread...

    It was a post on open mindedness. So yes, he says it's immoral. He's Catholic. But he's not going to ban homosexuality or anything.

    What's wrong with that?

    By Anonymous Anonymous, at Thursday, April 07, 2005 12:57:00 PM  

  • Since I posted my source I figured people could see the title.

    His quotes on his blog, especially about SB 1338, leave one to wonder if his stance has changed in the year and a half since. At the very least, he's taking the opportunity to appeal to those who aren't so open-minded...

    I'm not necessarily condeming him, just trying to reconcile what was said before and he projects himself and how he is perceived.

    By Blogger Nathan, at Thursday, April 07, 2005 1:04:00 PM  

  • Yeah dude, you didn't even post the comments from others (context is everything, right?)

    "Very nicely put. IMHO, I feel that what people do in the privacy of their own homes is really none of our business. All people should be treated fairly NO MATTER WHAT. Whether you agree or disagree with a persons religion, way of life, or sexual practices, it not our place to judge, but to be good, kind, and decent to one another. "

    "I think you have made some very good points here and I agree that we all need to practice some tolerence."

    "I for one have enjoyed SVKenney's postings. We obviously have some differing opinions, but we also have a common interest in promoting diplomacy amongst this community."

    "Well said Shaun, I unfortunately lose sight of this at times. I enjoy reading your posts they are very objective. "

    And look at disillusionedx2 arguing against SVKenney in post #145049 (Kenney's original in black, disx2 in blue).

    Be serious. For as much as Republicans are attacked as close-minded, the opposite is true here.

    By Anonymous Anonymous, at Thursday, April 07, 2005 1:08:00 PM  

  • Anonymous,

    Apparently I'm not making my point clear. What other people said in the post is great and all, but I'm focused on Shaun Kenney's post in comparison to what he said on his blog.

    Are the people who wrote all of those quotes going to vote for Kenney after what he said in response to the passing of SB 1338?

    How are people who are truly close-minded (which you admit is how Republicans are attacked, and they're out there) going to react when they realize he is such an "open-minded" candidate?

    Will they accept his nuanced positions? What are his true positions? Do they differ between his posts and what he's now saying as a candidate? That's what I'm trying to point out.

    How can we say for sure if he won't want to outright ban homosexuality? It's unlikely, but with his comments on SB 1338 and his 8,688 FredTalk posts deleted, how will we know for sure?

    Read the comment thread on the "Remember the 54th!" post and you'll see that I agreed to interview him.

    By Blogger Nathan, at Thursday, April 07, 2005 1:25:00 PM  

  • Yet when Shaun speaks of open-mindedness and how homosexuals are a part of America, the responses to his post are "how dare you, you're Catholic and a Republican, you have no right to say such things because you're lying."

    They counter his plea for open-mindedness with close-mindedness. He more or less asks folks to look beyond the stereotypes and instead they toss them back on him.

    I don't think open-mindedness is going to work against him. Hell, if that's all anyone can get on him, I'd say he's doing just fine.

    And I can personally state that this is not a matter of opportunity for Shaun. There is a need in the 54th and the voters have a right to pick who they want to fill it. Shaun saw a wrong and has an obligation to do what he can to fix it, and that is running for office.

    By Blogger Jason Kenney, at Thursday, April 07, 2005 1:35:00 PM  

  • I'll speak for Shaun's integrity here. He's a good man, and is honest to a fault.

    Will they accept his nuanced positions? What are his true positions? Do they differ between his posts and what he's now saying as a candidate? That's what I'm trying to point out.

    No they didn't differ. You ever talk to Shaun before? Great guy; never known him to not speak his mind in an honest, sincere, and polite manner.

    "Nuanced" isn't the word I would use for a position far more open-minded than these radicals. Just look at #145049. I mean, how nasty can disillusionedx2 get? Are you reading this stuff?

    Shaun's just saying he's morally opposed to homosexuality as a Catholic, but can still have a beer with people he disagrees with.

    Who here has a problem with that? I read his responses - doesn't sound like he's changed his tune one bit.

    I was on FredTalk for awhile. I don't understand why the libs would want the posts back up. Shaun beat them black and blue, and they're just upset about it. Best favor Shaun ever did for them was delete those posts - absolutely! LOL!

    By Anonymous Anonymous, at Thursday, April 07, 2005 2:21:00 PM  

  • This is stupid. Anyone who reads that website can see what Kenney was trying to say. I'd consider myself a liberal, but damn. Rude people make us look stupid. If a Republican says "hey, I disagree with you, but we can agree to disagree," take it! What ever happened to tolerance guys? Might never vote for a Republican, and certainly not for Kenney. Too conservative. But this is crap. When are we going to realize that it's the idiots like this that let us lose to the Republicans time and time again? Nathan, I hope you are angry about this. I would be. Kenney might be a Republican, but these people are just losers. Besides, the guy he's running against isn't a peach either. I've heard some bad rumors about Orrock. Real bad.

    JV

    By Anonymous Anonymous, at Thursday, April 07, 2005 7:16:00 PM  

  • Actually, it isn't crap. And the posts I've had friends voice concern about were not against openmindedness.

    The concerns voiced on FredTalk (and you can visit there yourself and look on fredericksburg.com ) are about being excessivly judgmental - what I was raised to call "presuming to know the mind of God." There's also a "living in a glass house while throwing stones" thread that's a bit of a concern.

    Are they fair? Unfair? How can we tell without the full quotes? I've certainly seen some quotes on FredTalk that raise BIG concerns in my book. There was even a question raised about whether or not his account was actually suspended - a poster claimed to have seen him online after his notes were deleted - which would mean the deletion preceeded his account closure. Is it true? Who knows? How can we find out what's the truth?

    Seems like the only way to get a truly fair view of what was said would be to look at the actual posts. Shaun should restore the posts if it's possible.

    Failing that, I think people should check out FredTalk on fredericksburg.com, and make up their minds based on what's left.

    Personally, I don't think the postsings as a whole particularly resound to Shaun's credit, but that is just my personal opinion. And, for the record, I'm a Republican who's against higher taxes and I don't believe in abortion.

    I'd say, go to FredTalk, read the threads, make up your own mind.

    By Anonymous Anonymous, at Sunday, May 01, 2005 8:52:00 AM  

  • How unbelievable! Someone, namely his brother comes on here and defends Shaun for his tolerant stance on homosexuals in our country. Shaun has no tolerance when he is speaking to the public or a forum for political his advantage.

    http://www.shaunkenney.com/2005/03/family-foundation-reports.html

    SB 1338 was passed into law last week. This was a bill so anti-family, it literally struck the word family and inserted the word "groups". Backers of the bill still refuse to admit it's true aims:

    Governor Mark Warner signed several bills into law in recent days, some of which were victories for pro-family citizens.

    "Unfortunately, but not surprising, the Governor also signed into law legislation that grants businesses in Virginia the right to distribute so-called domestic partner benefits. SB1338, which passed the House of Delegates by only one vote (click here to see vote), allows businesses that do not self-insure to extend health benefits to domestic partners, whether heterosexual and homosexual. While supporters claim the bill is a free enterprise initiative that will make Virginia a more competitive business environment, newspapers like the Richmond Times Dispatch saw through the spin, appropriately labeling their story, Health Coverage for Gay Couples Set.

    Media reports accurately portrayed the bill as a huge victory for homosexual advocates in Virginia. The legislation has long been a priority for Equality Virginia, Virginias largest pro-homosexual group. In an extra slap in the face for people of faith, the Governor chose to sign the bill on Good Friday.
    SB 1338 passed with one vote in the House of Delegates, and once again our delegate voted wrong on the bill. It's a disappointing commentary, but one we should keep in mind on June 14th.

    posted by Shaun Kenney @ 3/30/2005 11:05:00 PM

    3.28.2005

    "In an extra slap in the face for people of faith, the Governor chose to sign the bill on Good Friday."

    Sorry jason but this does not show any tolerance or understanding by Shaun Kenney. Shaun has showed himself to be nothing more then a tree stump politician who will say anything it takes to get a vote.

    By Anonymous Anonymous, at Monday, May 02, 2005 1:50:00 PM  

  • The thing that keeps bothering me is, the darn insurance bill is not about homosexuals.

    The bill allows people outside of your immediate family to buy insurance for you - so you can buy it for your nieces, nephews, grandkids, cousins, etc. In my extended family, we've had many situations where extended family members were part of a household and dependent on a breadwinner outside of a traditional family.

    And with layoffs and things, that can be what keeps a family in health insurance and out of banktuptcy.

    Having a law against buying insurance for your nieces and nephews is stupid.

    Virginia was the only state in the US where it was illegal to buy insurance for someone out of your immediate family. When it's legal in 49 other states, including places like South Carolina and Utah, that's usually a clue that the idea isn't radically liberal.

    What Kenney is basically saying, to me, is that he doesn't mind penalizing all of those families, of grandparents and grandkids, aunts and uncles taking in a cousin, and all the other permutations that those of us with big families have - he'll hurt all of those families if he can make life a little more inconvenient for homosexual couples.

    In my opinion, that isn't very Christian.

    And in my opinion, his description of the bill isn't very honest. Sorry, but.

    By Anonymous Anonymous, at Wednesday, May 04, 2005 7:42:00 AM  

  • In one of Shaun's posts, he stated (verbatim):

    "There's no such thing as 'the religious right'. It simply doesn't exist. There is no monolith, no puppeteer."

    Soon after, he started his campaign, running primarily on his moral foundation as a Catholic, for the 54th Delegate.

    Kris Grimes
    Fredericksburg, Va.

    By Anonymous Anonymous, at Monday, May 30, 2005 1:00:00 AM  

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