Moral Contradictions

Wednesday, April 06, 2005

Remember the 54th! Or something...

Spotsylvania Republican Party Chairman Shaun Kenney is challenging Del. Bobby Orrock in the 54th district's Republican primary this spring.

Apparently he has a lot to hide. FredTalk is a popular forum hosted by the Free-Lance Star, Fredericksburg's local newspaper. His personal profile reveals that he has been a member since December 2002 and posted 8,688 times.

All are deleted. Let me repeat. ..:: All are deleted ::..

FredTalk user "mfloyd" culled a statement made by Shaun "the candidate" versus Shaun "the forum poster". The link is under a thread talking about losing one's job and the post is somewhat of a threadjack... scroll down for the post.


Candidate Kenney rails against Gov. Warner for signing SB 1338 allowing companies to give benefits to domestic partners, heterosexual or homosexual.

Forum Poster Kenney believes:

  • "...that the state shouldn't be involved awarding marriages, as that is a religious precept."
  • "everyone has the right to do as they please (feel the libertarian streak?) so long as they do not harm anyone else."
  • "...but at the end of the day the choice to do the right thing and live a good moral life is up to you - not to the state."
  • "The state exists to protect the rights of individuals, not to proscribe their behavior."
  • "Insofar as the state has no right to usurp the authority of the Church, the state has no right to define what is or what is not a marriage."

    Wow, how did he move from a libertarian/conservative to social conservative, and why is he covering the tracks of his shift? This pdf from Kenney's website describes his beef with Orrock.

    If elected, apparently Kenney will spend the entire time going against his previous beliefs and focus his energy on the protection of the unborn and gun-owners.

    Edit:Check out other posts on this subject:

    The 54th and a chopping block
    Update on Shaun Kenney and the 54th
    Update on the 54th primary
    Beating the old (54th) horse
    Kenney and his promises - 5/5/05


    • Nathan, what the people at FredTalk are doing is taking quotes out of context and twisting them into what they want to read. This is not news, this is spin. Shaun fell into the trap of most internet forums and mailing lists of coming face to fact with people who will not listen to opposing view points no matter how valid they may be. All they do is take anything you say and turn it against you. "My, what nice weather we're having." "YOU'RE A HATE FILLED HOMOPHOBE THAT DOES NOTHING BUT WANT TO RESTRICT OUR RIGHTS FOR YOUR RELIGIOUS VIEW POIT!"

      Quotes can be made up. Shaun is not covering up his tracks, instead he seems to be trying to provide those trying to find out more about him a proper way to do that, from HIM directly, instead of going to where his words are twisted, distorted, and regurgitated by those who have nothing better to do than anonymously attack people who don't agree with them instead of standing up and actually publically fighting to make a difference.

      By Blogger Jason Kenney, at Thursday, April 07, 2005 9:04:00 AM  

    • Jason,

      Granted, the post that I referred to maybe spun and taken out of context. How can I verify this? Woops... all of Shaun Kenney's posts are deleted. Every single one of them... Did you catch that? All 8,688. I don't think I've written that many emails in my life... ever.

      If Candidate Kenney fell into a trap of coming "face to fact with people who will not listen to opposing viewpoints no matter how valid they may be", why are all the "valid" viewpoints deleted and not the resulting threads? You mentioned other people's reactions to his posts, but not his. I would think regardless of what others wrote, if his posts are "valid", I wouldn't think he would be ashamed of them.

      If he really fell into a "trap", why did he not trust others who may have come across his postings and make the same conclusion? Surely if people wanted to find out who the true Shaun Kenney was they could look to these posts and find out.

      Or could it be that he is worried because there were going to be contradictions between what his campaign is now saying versus what he said? Unless he hired a trained monkey to type out his posts over the last 2 years, these posts seem to have come from "HIM directly" albeit in an electronic fashion.

      Jason, I appreciate your comment and your post. However, I disagree with the notion that he is trying to allow people a "proper" way to find out about him and his views. With thousands of posts gone, it seems to be that the "proper" way is to say what voters want to hear and not have to account for himself. I guess if he wants to become another knee-jerk politician, he needs a clean slate to give him some initial credibility.

      If these posts were written say more than 5 years ago, I'd cut some slack, but I smell a large rat and simply cannot accept at face-value his good intentions, especially with 8,688 posts gone. Wow, 8,688. Eight-thousand six-hundred and eighty-eight. I still marvel at that number. He must have fell into a large trap.

      If I was able to vote in the 54th, I would be wary of him... he sounds like yet another politician who will say anything just to get elected with a strong disregard of the truth.

      Also, out of curiousity, what would be your relation to him? I noted on your blog that he's either a "friend or family"... I'm assuming family?

      By Blogger Nathan, at Thursday, April 07, 2005 9:57:00 AM  

    • Hey there Nathan,

      My position stands firm. No, I don't believe the state should be deciding what is and what is not a marriage - it's a religious norm; something that should be left for individuals (and respective churches) to decide for themselves. I believe certain interests groups are abusing the judiciary to force an opinion upon society that homosexual marriages - because they are lawful - must also be moral. The entire issue is symptomatic of a government meddling outside of it's boundaries. At some point, we need to step back and ask ourselves why certain groups are so emphatic about pushing a redefinition of marriage through the state. What are we resolving that living wills and powers of attorney cannot?

      My libertarian streak now safely intact, Jason makes is precisely the point I would make. If you want to know more about who I am and what I believe, come to the source and ask.

      In a political aside, if folks generate enough noise, I'd love to see my posts come back, if anything to show the caliber of some of the more vitriolic liberals on the FredTalk message boards (that's not to say all the liberals were so irrational - most were very good, but a handful are less than cordial to say the least). If enough people of goodwill want to see the debates we had online, I'm all for bringing the posts back up. Read up, talk to me, ask me questions. But taking stuff out of context? To be honest, you can see how negative they are now and why I took FredTalk up on it's policy.

      If it gets to the point where people really want to see if I'm honest and all I'm cracked up to be, then absolutely bring the posts back. It's a loaded deck; and don't think I haven't thought this one through. Ever wonder why I posted with my name and not anonymously as the others do? :)

      The more noise the make, the better quite frankly.

      I'm more than happy to answer any questions (I'll even let you interview me online if you'd like).


      By Blogger Shaun Kenney, at Thursday, April 07, 2005 12:52:00 PM  

    • Thanks for responding Shaun. I'm not going to touch your explanation of your beliefs and take you up on the interview for that discussion. Since these posts have been written before work and during my breaks, I'll take some time and formulate proper questions to understand what is going on.

      As for the FredTalk thing, I didn't quite catch why they were taken down in the first place... and for the record I'd like to see the posts revealed. Whether they discussions are negative or not is irrelevant; such is the internet as Jason mentioned. What I'm especially interested in reading are the threads you initiated, which is why in the second post I picked out a quote from a thread you started.

      Once again, if the posts are a "loaded deck" and you used your name, were they taken down because of your request or did the FLS take them down? What policy are you mentioning? (Not a FUGer)...

      Thanks again for your time and help in clearing the air. I'll gather the questions within the next several days.


      By Blogger Nathan, at Thursday, April 07, 2005 1:16:00 PM  

    • Thanks Nathan,

      When you suspend your account at FredTalk, your posts are deleted. Simple as that. Not much else to add.

      I'm not concerned about my ideas being talked about (I'd prefer that conversation quite frankly), but I don't like the negative part of politics that seeks to intentionally seeks to twist and misunderstand.

      As I said in the FredTalk thread posted above this entry, I can disagree morally on a number of topics, but that doesn't mean I ostracize others. That's simply not ethical behavior. Same with my views on governance.

      You'd be surprised how well this anti-tax, pro-life Republican gets along with the Democrats in Spotsylvania County. It doesn't mean we agree, but it does mean we can agree to disagree and move on to doing what's best.

      If people sincerely want to know what I believe, ask. I'm a pretty accessible guy. I certainly haven't held back on what I believe thus far (e.g. how many "politicians" afraid of their ideas would respond to a blog comment, eh?) and will continue doing precisely that.

      That's probably a bit much, but it's honest. More than happy to answer any further questions:


      By Blogger Shaun Kenney, at Thursday, April 07, 2005 2:01:00 PM  

    • Shaun,

      I'm sorry to badger, but I think the biggest question is now "how" the posts got deleted, by "why" the posts were deleted.

      You haven't answered that directly, but have answered everything else... why did you suspend your account? They all say "deleted by Brian", not "deleted because of suspension" or whatever. (Granted, I'm not a FUGger and each message board operates in a different fashion.) :)

      You posted over 8600 times over the course of 2+ years, which if my math is correct, is an average of 11 posts a day. Why did you stop all of a sudden? The timing is what raises questions for me.

      Thanks again.

      By Blogger Nathan, at Thursday, April 07, 2005 3:32:00 PM  

    • Why did I suspend the account? Took up too much of my time and quite frankly it simply stopped being fun. Same people, same arguments. Seriously though: would any explanation truly suffice for folks just looking for something to fight over?

      The timing argument just seems odd to me. Folks can still read my posts, college papers, white papers, anything I've posted online if they do a Google archive search. I'm not precisely sure what the big deal is about the posts being gone - just go to Google and dig 'em up!

      Anything else?


      By Blogger Shaun Kenney, at Thursday, April 07, 2005 7:07:00 PM  

    • Yes, Shaun and his brother are correct -- many things Shaun wrote on Fredtalk are now being taken out of context. However, that is only because the context was lost when Shaun asked the Fredtalk administrators to delete his posts in their entirety, just before he publicly announced his candidacy.

      I am a Fredtalk user and often bantered about with Shaun. I, like many users still on the Fredtalk board, believe a man with integrity would stand by his word, no matter what was said – even when that word was on a silly old Internet bulletin board. We all say things we later regret -- that's part of life. If Shaun felt like he really had nothing to lose, he would simply ask the Fredtalk administrators to reinstate his posts. Unfortunately, most of us never get the chance to erase those things from our own or others' memories, as Shaun did. Indeed, after Shaun's posts were deleted, it was announced that no one else's would be again.

      So, you can mosey on over to Fredtalk and see my vitriolic liberal statements (since I suspect Shaun would place me in that category on Fredtalk), but you can't see his replies.

      If Shaun is ever elected to public office in his lifetime, I think he’ll find it’ll be much more difficult to just erase what’s been said or done and start with a fresh slate. So Shaun, enjoy it while you can!

      By Anonymous James Doty, at Monday, May 30, 2005 12:09:00 AM  

    • Shaun,
      This is another poster from FredTalk (Heidelberg). Oh and you also came to our house and spoke to my husband, we are getting all of your flyers and some older lady called us last night,saying her politcal survey was paid by Shaun Kenny. Please stop sending flyers, stop having people call us. I know you are in a political capaign and my husband usually votes Republican, but not this time!! I think all of your negative energy has totally turned him off.
      You might want to consider changing your tactics!!

      By Anonymous Anonymous, at Friday, June 10, 2005 6:53:00 AM  

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